Try us

Where we differ from Latter-day Saints

Pick the reply a Latter-day Saint would make, from the restored priesthood and the Book of Mormon to temples and a God who was once a man, and see how we answer each one from the Bible.

We state our position first. Under it are the replies a well-read Latter-day Saint would make, put as strongly as we can put them. Choose one to see our answer from the Bible, then the next reply that person might make. Every answer links to the fuller case, and every exchange has its own link you can share.

Our position

We share a good deal with Latter-day Saints: we reject the Trinity and infant baptism, baptise by immersion for the remission of sins, and look for Christ to reign on the earth. Where we differ, the root is authority. God’s word was given once and written down, and it needs no restoration through later prophets.

“Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.”
Jude 1:3 · KJV

What would you say?

Who speaks for God?

Our positionGod’s word was given once and written down, and every teacher since answers to it. Christ is our only priest. “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son” (Hebrews 1:1–2).

The priesthood was taken away and restored by angels
The objection

The priesthood was taken from the earth and restored by angels: John the Baptist, then Peter, James and John.

Our answer

The New Testament knows only one Melchizedek priest: Christ. The old priests “were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood” (Hebrews 7:23–24). It does not pass to successors. The Aaronic priesthood ended with the Law: “the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law” (Hebrews 7:12). Every believer is now “an holy priesthood” (1 Peter 2:5). Your Church’s own history page says of the Melchizedek restoration: ‘It is impossible to precisely date this heavenly manifestation from existing sources.’

What might they say next?

Christadelphians teach an apostasy too
The objection

Christadelphians teach an apostasy too. You need a restoration as much as we do.

Our answer

We do teach it. The apostles warned that men would arise “speaking perverse things” (Acts 20:30), and they did. But the cure for a falling away from the word is the word. John Thomas claimed no vision, no angel and no priesthood. He went back to the Bible, and anyone with a Bible can check every line he wrote. Joseph Smith’s restoration rests on visions, and on plates nobody can now examine. One invites testing; the other asks to be taken on trust.

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Amos 3:7: we need a living prophet
The objection

‘Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets’ (Amos 3:7). We need a living prophet.

Our answer

Amos spoke of God’s dealings with Israel before Christ. Hebrews says those days of “sundry times and … divers manners” have given way to God speaking “by his Son” (Hebrews 1:1–2), and Jude speaks of “the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 1:3): once, finished. A prophet is tested by his record: “if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken” (Deuteronomy 18:22).

What might they say next?

The Lord will never let the President lead the Church astray
The objection

The Lord will never let the President lead the Church astray. Wilford Woodruff said so (Official Declaration 1).

Our answer

Then test it. From 1852, under Brigham Young, men of Black African descent could not hold the priesthood. Every President upheld the ban until 1978. Your Church now ‘disavows the theories advanced in the past that black skin is a sign of divine disfavor or curse’ (‘Race and the Priesthood’). Either the Presidents led the Church astray for 126 years, or the ban was right. Peter learned in the first century that “God is no respecter of persons” (Acts 10:34). The test Scripture gives is not ‘trust the President’ but “Prove all things” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Another testament

Our positionThe gospel the apostles preached is complete and needs no second testament. “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed” (Galatians 1:8).

Plain and precious parts were lost from the Bible
The objection

The Bible is God’s word only as far as it is translated correctly. Plain and precious parts were lost. The Book of Mormon restores them.

Our answer

Jesus read from a copy of Isaiah in the synagogue and called it Scripture fulfilled (Luke 4:17–21). Timothy learned “the holy scriptures” from a copy his mother owned, and they were “able to make thee wise unto salvation” (2 Timothy 3:15). Copies were enough. And if the Bible was corrupted, the Book of Mormon cannot be the fix: it reproduces long passages of the King James Version of Isaiah and Matthew almost word for word, 1611 translators’ wording included.

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Revelation 14:6 foretells an angel bringing the gospel
The objection

Paul doesn’t forbid all angels. Revelation 14:6 foretells an angel bringing the everlasting gospel: Moroni.

Our answer

Paul’s test is the message, not the messenger: is it the gospel “which we have preached” (Galatians 1:8)? Revelation’s angel carries “the everlasting gospel” (Revelation 14:6), the same one that always was, not a restored one. And the message that came through Joseph Smith includes things Paul never preached: that God was once a man, that men become gods, that marriage in a temple is needed for exaltation, and baptism for the dead. Measured by Paul’s test, it is “any other gospel” (Galatians 1:8).

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Read it and pray, and God will show you it is true
The objection

Read it and pray. God will ‘manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost’ (Moroni 10:4).

Our answer

A feeling cannot be the test, because people pray sincerely and get opposite answers. “The heart is deceitful above all things” (Jeremiah 17:9). Scripture gives an outward test: “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isaiah 8:20). The Bereans tested Paul by searching “the scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11), not by asking for a burning in the bosom.

What might they say next?

The Book of Abraham was translated from Abraham’s own papyri
The objection

The Book of Abraham was translated by the gift of God from papyri Abraham wrote.

Our answer

Here the claim could be checked, because the papyri survive. Your Church’s own essay concedes they ‘date to between the third century B.C.E. and the first century C.E.’, are ‘parts of standard funerary texts’, and that ‘Latter-day Saint and non-Latter-day Saint Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation’. The one time a translation could be tested against its source, it failed. That should weigh on how far to trust the plates nobody can see.

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

God was never a man

Our positionGod has always been God, and there is no other. “Even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God” (Psalm 90:2). “God is not a man” (Numbers 23:19).

As man now is, God once was
The objection

‘As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be.’

Our answer

Scripture says the opposite on both halves. God was never a man: “I am God, and not man” (Hosea 11:9); “from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God” (Psalm 90:2). And no one will become a god beside him: “before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me” (Isaiah 43:10); “I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God” (Isaiah 44:6). Note “after me”. Isaiah rules out future gods as firmly as past ones.

What might they say next?

Jesus quoted ‘Ye are gods’, and we will share the divine nature
The objection

Jesus himself quoted ‘Ye are gods’ (John 10:34; Psalm 82:6). We will be ‘partakers of the divine nature’ (2 Peter 1:4).

Our answer

Read the next verse of the psalm: “But ye shall die like men” (Psalm 82:7). The “gods” were Israel’s judges, who spoke for God. We agree the faithful will share God’s nature, immortal and holy, and bear his name: “I will write upon him the name of my God” (Revelation 3:12). But they will manifest the one God, not become separate gods with worlds of their own. “To us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things” (1 Corinthians 8:6), past, present and future.

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That is deep doctrine; it isn’t central
The objection

That is deep doctrine we don’t know much about. It isn’t central.

Our answer

Then why is it in the manuals? Gospel Principles chapter 47 says plainly, ‘He was once a man like us’, and the King Follett discourse is printed in a current manual. Doctrine and Covenants 132:20, ‘Then shall they be gods’, is canonised scripture. A teaching cannot be scripture in the temple and speculation at the door. If it isn’t true, the Church should say so; if it is, it contradicts Isaiah 43:10.

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Before birth and after death

Our positionMan is made from dust and begins at conception. The dead sleep, knowing nothing, until the resurrection. “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing” (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

‘Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee’
The objection

‘Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee’ (Jeremiah 1:5). We lived with God before birth.

Our answer

God knowing Jeremiah is not Jeremiah existing. God “calleth those things which be not as though they were” (Romans 4:17). Paul says Jacob and Esau were “not yet born, neither having done any good or evil” when God chose between them (Romans 9:11). No pre-mortal life, no pre-mortal choices. Man’s beginning is plain: “dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return” (Genesis 3:19).

What might they say next?

Jesus is our elder brother, and Lucifer rebelled before the world
The objection

Jesus is our elder brother in the spirit, and Lucifer rebelled in the pre-mortal council.

Our answer

The angel told Mary when the Son of God began: “that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” (Luke 1:35). The story of Lucifer comes from Isaiah 14, which says itself what it is: “this proverb against the king of Babylon” (Isaiah 14:4). It is about a proud king brought down to the grave, not a spirit brother in heaven.

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Christ preached to the ‘spirits in prison’
The objection

The dead go to the spirit world. Christ preached to the ‘spirits in prison’ (1 Peter 3:19), and the gospel is preached to the dead (1 Peter 4:6).

Our answer

Scripture says the dead are silent: “there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave” (Ecclesiastes 9:10); “in death there is no remembrance of thee” (Psalm 6:5). Peter says when the preaching happened: to those “which sometime were disobedient … in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing” (1 Peter 3:20). They heard it while alive. And there is no second chance: “it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27).

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Temples

Our positionChrist opened the way to God for every believer by his own blood. No building, ceremony or recommend stands between. “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh” (Hebrews 10:19–20).

Paul mentions baptism for the dead
The objection

Paul mentions baptism for the dead (1 Corinthians 15:29). We offer our ancestors the gospel.

Our answer

Paul says ‘they’, not ‘we’: “what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all?” (1 Corinthians 15:29). He argues for the resurrection; he commands nothing. Every baptism in the New Testament is of a living person who heard and believed: “when they believed Philip preaching … they were baptized” (Acts 8:12); “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16). No one can believe for another: “the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father” (Ezekiel 18:20).

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Marriage sealed in the temple lasts for eternity
The objection

Marriage sealed in the temple lasts for eternity, and it is needed for the highest glory.

Our answer

Jesus answered this directly: “in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). Marriage is for this life: a wife “is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth” (Romans 7:2). What the faithful inherit depends on faith and baptism into Christ: “if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:29). Not a ceremony behind a door most believers may not enter.

What might they say next?

Only the worthy may enter the temple
The objection

Only the worthy may enter the temple: full tithe payers who keep the Word of Wisdom.

Our answer

When Christ died, “the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom” (Matthew 27:51). God opened the way; men have hung a curtain back up. New Testament giving is free: “not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7). A tenth of income as the price of a recommend is the Law’s tithe brought back. And the Word of Wisdom was given ‘not by commandment or constraint’ (Doctrine and Covenants 89:2); it became a requirement in 1921. “Touch not; taste not; handle not … after the commandments and doctrines of men” (Colossians 2:21–22).

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Revelations that changed

Our positionGod does not reverse himself, and a revelation from him does not need correcting by a later one. “I am the Lord, I change not” (Malachi 3:6).

God commanded plural marriage for a time, then ended it
The objection

God commanded plural marriage for a time, then withdrew the command in 1890, just as he gave and later ended the Law of Moses.

Our answer

Your own scriptures disagree with each other. The Book of Mormon says: ‘David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord’ (Jacob 2:24). Doctrine and Covenants 132 says: ‘David’s wives and concubines were given unto him of me … and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah’ (132:39). Both cannot be from God. Jesus took marriage back to the beginning: “they twain shall be one flesh” (Matthew 19:5), and an elder was to be “the husband of one wife” (1 Timothy 3:2).

What might they say next?

Jacob 2:30 allows exceptions
The objection

Jacob 2:30 allows exceptions: ‘For if I will … raise up seed unto me, I will command my people.’

Our answer

Verse 30 allows a future command. It does not undo verse 24, which judges David and Solomon’s many wives ‘abominable’. Doctrine and Covenants 132:39 says the same wives were God’s gift and no sin. That is not an exception; it is a contradiction about the same men. And the 1890 command was not kept even by those who gave it: your Church’s essay records new plural marriages after the Manifesto, including by 8 of the 19 apostles who served between 1890 and 1904.

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

The priesthood ban was a policy of its time
The objection

The priesthood ban was a policy of its time, and the Church has disavowed the old explanations.

Our answer

We welcome the disavowal. But the ban was not one man’s mistake. It was upheld by every President for 126 years, under the promise that the Lord would never permit the President to lead the Church astray. The apostles had settled it in the first century: “God is no respecter of persons” (Acts 10:34). A church led by living prophets took until 1978 to learn what Peter learned at Cornelius’s door.

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The temple in Missouri will still be built
The objection

The temple in Missouri will still be built. The Saints were hindered by their enemies.

Our answer

The revelation set a time limit: ‘this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord’ (Doctrine and Covenants 84:5, given in 1832). That generation has passed. The Church’s own manual says, ‘Neither the city of New Jerusalem nor the temple was built at that time.’ Moses gave the test: “if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken” (Deuteronomy 18:22).

Your objection isn’t here? Ask us

Is your reply not here? Ask us. We read every message and answer from Scripture.